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andrew martin



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, one thing is for sure just to give you an indication of the REAL situation if we are going to discuss money.

I am the ECF manager of Coaching and have a £ 0 budget.

Compare this with ANY other sport.

I take the point about top players working hard and not taking things for granted. Now however, I realise the immensity of the task in front of me.

Andrew
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David



Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 768
Location: Sefton Park, Liverpool

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean wrote:
Might be useful to check the ECF accounts before quoting figures. Your numbers suggest income of £90k pa. The ECF accounts acually show a turnover in excess of £300k


Might be even more useful, not to mention wiser, to assume I've tried. I can't find ECF accounts online; and I can't get them from ECF. The figures I'm working to are those provided in the ECF Long-term Strategic Plan, 2006. This cites in para 3.7 three principal income sources: DCMS grant (£60k); 'game fee' (c. £50k); direct members (£50k), yielding c. £160k annual income. The same report (para 3.4) cites 11,873 players with published grades; hence my figure of a £5 Government subsidy per head, 33% of total income. I've no idea where you get your figures from, nor what credibility they have, unless 'turnover' includes straight 'in and out' items like the Smith & Williamson £30k sponsorship of the British championships

David
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regan



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 116
Location: cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,

Your figures are more or less accurate. Turnover of circa £300k includes sponsorship, private donations, the British Champs and parental contributions.

Martin.
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billyboy62



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my barb was not aimed at you andrew at least you are trying to earn a living
but am i the only 1 here disqusted that you have a budget off £0 and the office budget is £110k

the juniors are the grass roots i am talking about this is a area where the ECF can do so much but not on a budget off £0 it can not.The ECF have relied to long on local coaches doing this for nothing or the parents of the juniors paying the coaching fees.I know 2 junior coaches in this area they are involved in the selection of juniors for england squads they do it because they love coaching and dont charge the kids anything both these gentlemen are getting older and i dont see anybody taking over from them in the future unless the ECF comes up with some kind of structure that rewards coaches
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David



Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 768
Location: Sefton Park, Liverpool

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having taken a closer look at the Sports Council data, my figures are broadly correct although the 90% : 10% ratio I cite may be nearer 85% : 15% because of ‘special factors’. Those ‘special factors’ include recent Government efforts to combat obesity and ill-health through an ‘Active Britain’ campaign targeting the young; and the colossal private market in football which cynically skews expenditure priorities towards community programmes in that specific sport (explained later).

Four principal public bodies fund sport in England under the general umbrella of the DCMS & Sports Council; money comes mainly from the Exchequer (60%) and the Sports Lottery (40%):

Sport England with a £130 million annual budget; the cash is distributed via local and regional bodies, and via national sports governing bodies. Allocations vary from small grants to major infrastructure developments, and from coaching staff costs to commissioned research;

UK Sport with £50 million + £30 million annually until 2012 + £100 million over six years from the private sector. Allocations are reserved entirely for world class competitors and world class events;

Football Foundation with an unspecified budget provided by the FA, the Premier League, and the Goverment. Allocations are usually small grants up to £400 for junior kit; up to £1500 for goalpost safety; and a few larger awards for ground improvements; all require matched funding

Community Club Development Fund with £100 million annually, awards distributed wholly by national sports governing bodies. It is unclear to me whether this programme is separate from the Sport England budget; it may not be, hard to tell.

Two main slogans drive Government funding policy (excluding the attack on obesity): “Achieving world class performance” and “From the playground to the podium”; both, one should note, emphasise the pursuit of outstanding performance as the reason for taking part.

Leaving aside the ear-marked elite funding of UK Sport, most ‘grassroots’ funding flows through Sport England via other local agencies, or from the Football Foundation. The latter funding source makes football a ‘special case’, and leads Sean to say:

Sean wrote:
speaking from a football perspective (something I am actively involved in), (David) is completely wrong. The majority of football grants do indeed go to the grass roots teams and clubs...I cant speak to other sports however

I’m rarely completely wrong, especially when I stay close to the facts. Grants to football come mainly from the Football Foundation not the Sports Council (Sport England). The Football Foundation is a relatively recent Government wheeze to arm-twist the self-indulgent Premier League into giving something back to the community. The Premier League has taken the hint, and recognised the PR benefits of appearing to be ‘doing something’ for the fans apart from ripping them off every weekend. After all, some clubs spend more on one player than the Government is able to give to the rest of sport combined; their annual salary bills are three times higher than that; and their players hardly set standards as role models for young people. Giving up to £400 for new junior kit buys a lot of goodwill from the ever-willing, calf-eyed fans, not to mention calf-eyed Government ministers. But it has very little to do with building ‘grassroots’ soccer; it’s simply a cynical marketing gimmick. And it doesn’t extend beyond football.

Sport England does fund ‘grassroots’ sport though. But even here, the ‘grassroots’ players are often not directly affected. Certainly, they may have seen their local cricket pavillion upgraded; an all-weather running track or tennis court installed; some new equipment purchased; security fencing; indoor facilities and so forth. All very worthwhile. But the bulk of Sport England cash gets spent on major infrastructure projects: the national rowing centre; a new velodrome; the national cricket academy; the Sheffield or Manchester Arenas; Wembley stadium etc etc. These facilities are not exactly ‘grassroots’; but they are consistent with a commitment to excellence, and so used mainly by a relative elite.

So if chess ever does become ‘a sport’ accepted by Sport England, do not imagine we will achieve this without a viable national governing body, currently the ECF, through which to channel funds. Reducing the ECF to a volunteer rump, as Sean suggests, or driving it out of business as some from Cleveland are now threatening, will scupper any chance of that. And do not imagine that the ECF would be allowed to dish out the cash to any old Tom, Dick or Harry. Cash goes to the ‘grassroots’ principally where it can generate high value-added. So chess communities without a track record of commitment to excellence will be hard-pressed to argue their case. On the other hand, Andrew Martin, as head of coaching, would be very well-placed to argue for resources to develop a junior scheme of excellence, a regional coaching squad, etc.

Of course that won’t happen either until everyone gets a grip, and works out what’s at stake here. For some, chess is a pleasant local hobby. Fair enough; they can enjoy the game at that level - but they will have to fund it individually because neither the public purse nor sponsors will. On the other hand, there are those, still a minority even among players I fear, who see chess as a national sport worthy of national public funding. They are prepared to do what it takes to convince the bodies responsible that chess can be trusted with a national role. I am one of them. Time to scratch a line in the sand. Now.

sand>>>______________________________________________<<<sand

David Smile
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Last edited by David on Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ernie Lazenby
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: In my sights Reply with quote

David. You are starting to get my attention again when you make unfounded and stupid statements about what we in Cleveland want to do with the ECF.

Nothing I have said in my recent posts says that is what I want to happen so when you refer to Cleveland be specific who you are referring to please. I object to my County being drawn into this in the way you describe.

Clevelands position is clear unambiguous, well documented and not in doubt.The policy is we require members to be members of the ECF to play chess in CCA events. Thats what the members voted for but equally they could well vote for something else if they dont like the package offered next year. The Chess playing community is a democracy,one of a dwindling number in the UK, and all I have said is that if the package does not meet the needs of the players well they can always find another package.

I as an individual could be minded to vote for something else unless the ECF officials get a grip and start to sort out the dinasaur of an organisation.

BTW The individual who is rarely wrong or never wrong does not exist other than in the individuals mind.
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andrew martin



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back to coaching the most important thing to realise is that a lot of good work is being done all over the country helping youngsters and older players too for that matter to get better at chess.

But it is fragmented and haphazard as far as I can see and we have to find a way of bringing everyone together so that we are all talking the same language.

It's clear to me that the coaching system has to be based on competence. Prospective coaches have to attend courses, pass exams, gain qualifications as in other sports. Even Grandmasters. I know many who are absolutely hopeless in transmitting their ideas to young people. Even they will have to bury their pride and take the exams.

Only then will we have any credibility and be able to get sponsorship.

Yes, its true the stronger players must set a better example. Many of you are attacking the Federation, but our top players so often shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to image, attitude and presentation. The bottom line is that there's not a lot the ECF can do about that at the moment. They don't have the credibility or the clout.

I hope I can change that in some way; we will have to see. My dept has a degree of freedom at its disposal.

Andrew
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Ernie Lazenby
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Excelent Reply with quote

Thank you Andrew. Good to read the thoughts of someone with ideas and who express's himself so clearly and moderately. You set a good tone and I wish you well in your efforts.

I happen to be one of the great numbers who in the past gave of their time to help juniors; for a time I ran a junior chess club and did my best with my lowely rating of 150 at that time to help beginners and improvers.

I agree entirely that coaches must be able to communicate well and present the right image not least to parents.

Sadly a change in my position at work resulted in me returning to the dreaded three shift system and I could not continue with the club. The good thing was that I was able to get all the cash I needed for equipment from the local council who provided me a room free of charge in the local sports centre! I turned up well dressed to the meeting with council officials , spoke politely and presented a good case ! it seems to work.

Locally our most active junior coach/organiser is someone who presents a good image to parents and officials. He also happens to be a top player so that helps.
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Sean



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 315
Location: Not in Gibraltar

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,

I only wanted to point out where the money goes football wise. But its more than the odd bit of kit. Up and down the country tens of thousands are granted for new changing rooms, floodlights, astroturf facilities etc.

But I agree with the line in the sand! Lets call a moratorium on this one.

Re the accounts, I have a copy and will try to post for you later today.

Regards

Sean
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SteveC



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 224
Location: wirral

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Andrew Farthing has been appointed as the new Strategic Planning Officer. Can we find out what his exact role will be?

From AD Martin's experience as the former(?) manager of coaching with £0 budget perhaps the new SPO is quite aptly named after all Wink
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Carl Hibbard



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteveC wrote:
I see Andrew Farthing has been appointed as the new Strategic Planning Officer. Can we find out what his exact role will be?

From AD Martin's experience as the former(?) manager of coaching with £0 budget perhaps the new SPO is quite aptly named after all Wink

See here:-

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=567&start=15

Cheers
Carl
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SteveC



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 224
Location: wirral

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks but my question was asking for details about what his exact role will be not his recent holiday destination or previous occupation.

I work with someone who has an identical title carved into his office door and hardly anyone knows what he does. Presumably there's a job description somewhere for AF?
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Carl Hibbard



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteveC wrote:
Thanks but my question was asking for details about what his exact role will be not his recent holiday destination or previous occupation.

I work with someone who has an identical title carved into his office door and hardly anyone knows what he does. Presumably there's a job description somewhere for AF?

Could well be on the ECF web site but finding it is a different matter

Rolling Eyes
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SteveC



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 224
Location: wirral

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I thought I would never find out but it was worth a try.
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